Ep. #3 - Songs, Smoke and Stories

A billion streams is a flex, but it doesn’t explain how you get there, or what it costs to keep it going. We’re hanging with Cleto Cordero of Flatland Cavalry to talk about the real build: traveling the country, earning fans one show at a time, and turning a garage dream into a worldwide Texas country music career that’s now reaching places like Australia and New Zealand.

Cleto walks me through the moments that shaped him: getting a guitar at 14, learning to play during Lent when the TVs got unplugged, and writing a song in high school that made people cry and kickstarted what he wanted to do with his life. We dig into the craft of songwriting, how a song has only a few minutes of “real estate,” and why the studio version of a track can involve different musicians, different parts, and a whole lot of humility in service of the song.

Then we bring it back to what we do at Meat Church: food, family, and the stories that happen around the table. We talk comfort food, Cleto’s love of cooking from his mom’s kitchen, and why chile verde is the kind of Southwestern classic that brings people together fast. We also pour some serious bourbon, including Blanton’s Straight From The Barrel, plus a wild story about playing music inside Buffalo Trace’s iconic Warehouse C.

If you’re into BBQ, we also relive a brisket disaster that literally caught fire, get honest about smoker choices, and talk about what it means to keep your heart in your work when the dream job starts feeling like work. Subscribe, share this with a friend who loves Texas country and barbecue, and leave a review so more people can find the show.

Transcript

Accolades, Fans, And Global Touring

Matt Pittman 0:00

Hey everybody, I'm Matt Pittman. Welcome to episode three of the Meet Church Podcast. Very excited today. I've told you guys that on our podcast, there's going to be outdoorsmen, there's going to be chefs, there's going to be pitmasters, there's going to be musicians, there's going to be athletes. Today is the time we finally break into talking to some of our musician friends. So today I'm going to be talking to Cleto Cordero of Flatland Cavalry. We're going to be getting into talking about cooking. We're going to talk about Flatland's background and a whole lot more. We've got a pretty big resume here that I'm super excited about. So seven number one singles at Texas Country Radio, and this one blows me away. One billion streams worldwide, one billion with a capital B. Three consecutive ACM nominations for Group of the Year from 2024, 2025, and 2026. That is heavy. I'm going to tell you one of the things that I think is the coolest. Have played on Yellowstone and Landman. We're big fans of both in my house. And Netflix 's "The Ranch." Super excited. So without further ado, my friend Cleto Cordero of Flatland Cavalry.

Cleto Cordero 1:35

Howdy, thanks for having me.

Matt Pittman 1:37

This is exciting. Thanks for being here.

Cleto Cordero 1:39

Just keep listening to my accolades if you want to make me feel good.

Matt Pittman 1:43

I mean, man, uh one billion streams, that's gotta blow your mind. Do you ever think one billion people would listen to the music you write and and play?

Cleto Cordero 1:52

Honestly, no, I never I would it start it starts with just one, you know, and then it turns into two and it keeps you know multiplying like exponentially after that. But yeah, a billion is wild wrap your mind around. I'm curious how many people that is, but just listen someone out there responsible for like a hundred million of them or whatever.

Matt Pittman 2:10

You've got some bots somewhere. You got you got a super fan that's just got you on loop.

Cleto Cordero 2:14

It's possible. Yeah, we we've been all over the place. So we've made a lot of friends all over the place, and some are more fanatical than others, but yeah.

Matt Pittman 2:23

Yeah, I think so. When we talk about the meat church audience, we call our, you know, we've got this thing we call the meat church congregations, this rabid Facebook group of like over half a million people. And you know, when I talk to people about our brand, I'm like, man, we've got a cult like following, and I can't think of a band that I feel like has the same. Like your fans are your fans, and they are if you know, you know about Flatland. We recently were together at uh Troubadour Music Festival down in Bryan, and man, people go nuts. Like, I don't know, you guys have done it right. I feel like you've done it different, but in in the right way, and uh I don't know. I d how do you feel about that? Like, I just feel like you've you've got like some your fans are serious.

Cleto Cordero 3:01

Well, thanks. Yeah, but I mean perhaps like I know that we love it so much and we get to do it and we're passionate about it, and you go out there and share that with other people and you know catches on. And uh as you as I mentioned a moment ago, we've literally traveled around the whole country and built it like one fan at a time.

Matt Pittman 3:20

Yeah

Cleto Cordero 3:20

I think all those fans have now started to like as we've continue to progress and more people have heard about us, like all those communities are kind of meeting each other for the first time too, and it's grown into like a bigger family and uh very welcoming place too, I feel and like it's come as you are and uh we were just happy to play whoever would show up, you know, during our shows. But uh like like you mentioned, you all have a there's like a cult following and there's a culture there. Humble folks is what uh based off of our first album.

Matt Pittman 3:50

So say name your first album.

Cleto Cordero 3:51

Yeah, that's what we call the f our our our community, the folks that come out to the shows and so yeah, it's it's wild to wrap your mind around though that it started out in a garage and to go from that and just playing for ourselves and our our friends to Australia and

Matt Pittman 4:09

I'm about to say all right, you said nationwide, but you just got back from uh playing with Laney Wilson outside of the country.

Cleto Cordero 4:16

Yeah, we were gone for a whole month, did ten shows, two of them in New Zealand, Christchurch and Auckland, and and then just all over Australia and literally a world away. I remember being in Perth, which is like the furthest west you can go in Australia, and yeah, looking at it the Indian Ocean and just feeling so far away from home, but still knowing that we're doing what we're supposed to do and what we always hoped and dreamed about doing. And uh yeah, the music's carried us literally almost around the world.

Matt Pittman 4:47

It's it's kind of wild when you're over there because it's the opposite time of year, you know. So when it's summer here, it's winter there. I love Australia because of a massive barbecue culture, but um I don't know, it feels like they're very similar to us, although they talk a lot cooler than I do. If I had an Australian accent, I would have been able to get a lot more girls most of my life, but uh I do feel like they're into a lot of the same things we are, hence the reason you guys were there.

Cleto Cordero 5:08

Oh, yeah, yeah. Country music, cooking outside, yeah, you know, just lots of similarities to Texans for sure.

The Guitar, The First Song, The Band

Matt Pittman 5:16

Yeah. Okay, we'll just jump into some some I got some beginning questions for you. So tell me your aha moment. I heard that it was when you wrote a song in high school, but obviously I really want to know how you guys started and how Flatland guys started.

Cleto Cordero 5:31

Yeah, so I I was gifted a guitar when I was 14 by my older brother, and I was raised Catholic, so my parents were kind of old school, they would unplug the TVs for the Lent season, so I had nothing else to do. Yeah, for 40 days, and I was gifted a guitar by my brother the you know, previous Christmas, which was like a couple months p prior. And so I had nothing else to do but learn how to play that guitar, and that's kind of where it began. I like fell in love with it actually and had enough time to like build the habit of it and everything, and then fast forward a few years, I was telling you, like, as you mentioned, I was on high school and told someone I'd write a song, and I played that song at the high school function that they hired me to be at, and made grandmas cry, and people come up to me afterwards and tell me that just took them it took them to some kind of place, you know, and I I feel like in that moment it caught the bug of songwriting and wanted to pursue that uh 'cause it seemed to have like an impact on people and um I I already loved it already, but the fact that it was bringing people together that I didn't even know I thought was special. And so once I knew that it that's what I wanted to do, um I my sights were always set on that, and then when it came to like wanting to form a band, our drummer and I have known each other since eighth grade and we started jamming in high school around the time he discovered that I played guitar and I heard he played drums, and so him and I were uh we moved to Texas Tech as roommates after we finished two years at junior college and I remember we went to like open mic nights, open jams and stuff. The first Sunday we were in Lubbock just looking for other bandmates and stuff, and so we we got started while going to Texas Tech and out of the garage and just literally seeking and the whole if anything like chasing the dream has really taught me that is like keeping your eyes open, your spiritual eye open to like opportunities and people that come into your life and knowing uh when to like you know reach out and say, Hey, would you like to join the band and all this stuff? And so, but yeah, it was kind of it was formed there while we were going to school as kids, but it was like I I knew I moved there to do that, you know.

Matt Pittman 7:46

Yeah, I was gonna ask, so we have a lot of common friends and particularly the Texas tech music scene, I'll call it. I didn't go to tech, but you know, being friends with Josh Abbott, um Wade Bowen, Will, William Clark Green, did you go to tech because I mean I know you're from Midland, but did you go there because there was a music scene, or is that where you naturally ended up, or how'd that work?

Cleto Cordero 8:08

Yeah, I'm I remember like getting a Midland Reporter Telegram newspaper, and they would always like there would be like a music section that would talk about like people that are coming into town at Rock and Rodeo or whatever have you, and I saw William Clark Green and I didn't it was like this homespun, you know, Texas country, you know, this music that was not, you know, mainstream that uh I I hadn't heard of him, so I would I start looking into it and then I start doing my research and it mentioned the Blue Light Live, this venue there in town, and I go to their webs website and just start looking into all the lore, and then it's like, you know, you had Will Green, Josh Abbott before him, you know, Wade Bowen, Pat Green.

Matt Pittman 8:46

Yeah.

Cleto Cordero 8:46

So it was like this, and then Cory Morrow too, and I was like, there is something going on, and it's just like 90 minutes from home. So when it came time to like make a decision of like, do I go to Austin and try to be go to the live music capital of the world or go to this place called Lubbock? I mean, signs are pointing towards it that you could launch out of there apparently.

Matt Pittman 9:06

I didn't know if there wasn't anything else to do in Lubbock at the time. Is that why music got going?

Cleto Cordero 9:10

I think so. I really do, because yeah, it's super it's flat and dusty and uh not nothing else to do really but, you know, drink and race some hell and be creative to make use of the time. Yeah. You know, but yeah, I I would just sit out there in my garage and when I wasn't going to school or class or just open it up and probably crack open a beer and sit there and just try to write something and because you had nothing else to do.

Matt Pittman 9:36

Yeah. Yeah.

Songwriting Craft And Studio Versus Stage

Matt Pittman 9:38

Such a crazy thing for me. That you know, so I was I was a drummer through high school and thought that because I want to be like a rock band drummer and I, you know, bailed out of that when I got to college, but I love music, huge music fan. But a gift that I do not have is being able to write a song. Like that blows me away that people can, you know, not only write lyrics, but accompanying the music to it, like that is such a crazy art. Like, I feel like some people just turn on the radio and they they like the sound of something and they get into it. But the the you know, the songwriting and and applying the music to that just blows me away. That's a talent that is wildly not in within my wheelhouse. Sure.

Cleto Cordero 10:16

Well, yeah, I I hear you. It's it definitely is like a seems like a mystical art, very inspired one. But I mean, we should try to write one one time because I do believe everyone has at least one good song in them.

Matt Pittman 10:26

Boy, the Matt Pittman song written.

Cleto Cordero 10:28

We could we could write something, I I believe, but yeah, it's to me I've at least what I've what I've learned through doing it since I was 17. I'm I'll turn 34 in June is like it's almost half of my life I've been doing it.

Matt Pittman 10:39

Yeah.

Cleto Cordero 10:39

And so to me, it's like a distillation of an emotion where it's like you get this emotion and you only have so much real estate in a song. Most songs are three to four minutes. You only got so many stanzas, and and another thing too is like there's really no rules too. I mean, most songs that we hear on the radio are like verse chorus, verse chorus, maybe a bridge, but you can it can just be whatever you want it to be. But as long as it, you know, that meter and the melody and the emotion all like sync up and it makes someone feel something, to me, that's like what a good song does. And um even when I didn't even know what I was doing, I was still like sitting there by myself and seeing what wanted to come out because uh it's an emotional, like spiritual process or whatever, but and and also too, like it's a lot of work as far as like getting an idea and then and then like working on it. And like I said, you only have so much space to say something. So I think yeah, I've learned a lot about myself and others through through that strange art.

Matt Pittman 11:45

You're gonna put this on my bucket list now to write a song. I'm gonna

Cleto Cordero 11:48

Come on!

Matt Pittman 11:49

I'm gonna come meet you on the road. I know from other musical friends of mine, I'll be like, hey, um I'm coming to see you at Red Rocks, and I'm like, Well, I can't see you from 2-4 because I'm with a songwriter. So that's actually what you're gonna tell your friends. I'm like, I'm gonna be I'm with a songwriter's name's Matt Pittman, and we're gonna see what we can come up with.

Cleto Cordero 12:04

I I I bet you something good if you show up with that.

Matt Pittman 12:08

All right, that seriously is now on my list. Like, I I would never thought of that, but my wife's gonna be so proud of a new a new hobby.

Cleto Cordero 12:15

If you can help me redeem making a brisket um or something like that, then that would be uh that would be return me returning the favor.

Matt Pittman 12:23

All right, let that's a good segue. We're gonna we're gonna talk about this. Let's uh let's talk about food. Um actually hold on. Before before we talk about food, let's finish that off. So you and I were talking about this earlier. Um, something that as I got to, you know, uh meet a lot of people that are musicians, well-known musicians like yourself, I learned that something that blew me away was that the the players or the band members that I see on tour are usually or oftentimes not the people that play on the record. So you gotta explain that to me a little bit. That's pretty nuts that I guess there's people a lot of like professional players, I don't know, back in Nashville somewhere that aren't actually on the road. Because I would be on the road. I wouldn't be on the road and like playing for a crowd and like feeling that energy, but there's people that just do this in the studio, huh?

Cleto Cordero 13:06

Yeah, so there's like anytime you go to make a record, you putting your best foot forward and like the honoring the song and what it all that it can be and everything too, and like it takes like hours and thousands of hours, ten thousands of hours to be able to like know music well enough and and the instrument well enough too to just be able to birth the music and give the song what it needs, and so uh yeah, like there's uh studio musicians and then there's you know the live touring musicians and uh in the beginning when we were starting out, we were just we were like neither really, we were just playing in a garage, you know what I mean. But we worked at the producer there in Lubbock, uh Scott Ferris, that really helped us uh polish us up, if you will, you know, was very patient and helped us uh form our sound, and part of that was he had a a student of his from actually lives in Japan, named Kyle Aaron, that played fiddle on our first album. We got to a a point where he was like, We need to make these songs the best they can be. And so he called in Kyle, and that's kind of like that's really a part of our Flatland sound is that that that rich fiddle, you know what I mean? And so but yeah, thank God bless guys like him that and he doesn't tour, you know, he just yeah is holed up in his studio and um brings music to life still. But yeah, it's like I think to be able to play on a record too for any musician would be like a it's uh grateful to have the opportunity, but also to like have the humility to know when to like step back. There's been songs of ours too. I hadn't played acoustic guitar on or anything because the producers like we need something very precise, you know, and you're a songwriter and you're kind of jangly and so but yeah, um and I

Matt Pittman 14:52

But then you play it on but then you will play it on the road, obviously.

Cleto Cordero 14:55

Yeah, yeah. Well I can sit there and you know woodshed the part that has been played or whatever have you and you know, get it to where I can play it live and recreate it. And there's a song like on this new record, gone, where I didn't play the it's like in a different tuning too. Like I I'll write it, I can write it any song on a guitar and just you know, play it very simply, like cowboy chords and stuff, and when it goes to get transformed, as I was telling you, like what the song wants to be in the studio, that can mean like alternate tunings and different rhythm structures and stuff that I'm like I wasn't start, you know, trained classically or anything, just shade tree guitar player, but um I get by with what I can. But on the contrary, there's some studio musicians that would struggle to go and take it to the stage live. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because there's a an element of performance too. It's like showmanship and not that it's like I think you gotta be equal parts both, you know. You can't just be all showmen and not have any chops or anything. But yeah, I've I've heard of tales of guys being on stage and they're like brilliant and super musical, but there's maybe their showmanship's not very exciting to watch or something.

Matt Pittman 16:00

So you gotta have the WWE element to you.

Cleto Cordero 16:02

There's some there's some nature to that, yeah. Nothing that a couple of shots of something probably.

Matt Pittman 16:07

Oh, yeah, I was gonna say hopefully the crowd crowd's drinking and you're good. Yeah. Man, what a life. I don't know. That'd be that'd be fun, but I think I'd rather be on the stage. I'm this reminds me of me and my wife. I would I'm the extrovert wants to be on the stage. She's the studio musician back here. She she's not one to want to be seen.

Cleto Cordero 16:24

Once again, you can join us on stage. One of these days, you'd we'll we'll find some instrument for you.

Matt Pittman 16:29

I have done that twice. What did you play? Oh, drums? No. Um, I've done that twice, a couple of times. So um, I was out in the first time I was out in Tyler and uh friends with Randy Rogers, and I and I hopped out uh with my buddy Smitty, and um I forgot what what we were singing, but Brady, the fiddle player, had us come out, and it's kind of funny. We're singing, and I'll never forget Brady moved the mic over and he looked at us and it's really loud, and he goes, You don't have to scream. So that was my first time, and then fast forward to Troubadour, where I saw you this year. Well, last year, it was at um Aggie Park at Texas AM, and Pat was playing, and it was Smitty and I again. So the deal is Smitty and I say we've formed a band. He lives out in Tyler, we call it uh Waxahachie Tyler line. We've now played twice, but uh, we went out and uh highlight my life. I got to sing wave on wave. Uh the guitar wasn't adjusted for me, so it was like down at my knees. So I look like a flea from red hot chili peppers type situation singing. But um, it was pretty funny because I don't think the guitar was turned down like it was supposed to be, so there was that. But at the end, I remember, you know, Pat's off stage and I'm throwing pics out to the crowd. My wife's like, What the hell are you doing? I was like, honey, I was giving the people what they wanted. You know that WWE fact. But I have a great picture of that Smitty took. It's like me, him, Pat uh from their photographer, the crowd in the background. So super cool. So um you can mute me and I'll come out on stage and I can work the crowd for you.

Cleto Cordero 17:54

You got it. You can play uh the character off of the Humble Folks album, the first one we have is it's actually our day-to-day manager, Roy Johnson, yeah, the coyote. We have we have his like an outfit. We made a replica of it that we keep in the wardrobe case. So you're welcome to be an honorary Roy Johnson Coyote.

Matt Pittman 18:11

I'm I'm down. Well, he's here in Dallas, so he can help, he can help uh he can help me rehearse and I'll be ready to roll. He'll get you there.

Cleto Cordero 18:17

He's good with logistics.

Matt Pittman 18:19

That's funny.

Home Cooking Roots And Comfort Food

Matt Pittman 18:20

Well, let's talk about food for a minute. I got a lot of cool stuff to talk to you about, but um, I'm gonna hit you with a generic question. I start with everybody. Do you like to cook? I know you've kind of addressed it, but let's let's just start from there. Do you do you like to cook?

Cleto Cordero 18:30

I do. I love to cook. Um, I learned it from my mom. She made supper every night, and and some nights when she had like to teach night classes for like some extra income and stuff, she would like help us learn how to cook and stuff like that. So we would have, you know, kind of became self-sufficient pretty early on. So I I I enjoy it anytime I get a chance to.

Matt Pittman 18:50

Well, and you've you've pushed me because um, so this episode, you'll be listening to this. Everyone who won't be listening or watching this after our cooking episode has come out on the Meat Church YouTube channel. And so last time we were together, you know, I always like I I never tell people what we should do. So when we have a guest on, we kind of ask, what do you want to cook? And um, and you talked about kind of some home cooking and something um, I forgot what not I feel like the word that you used, but it reminded me of home cooking and so yeah, yeah, that's what it was. So do something like that. So we're gonna do uh yeah, why don't you just tell us? Like, what was your idea and what we're gonna do?

Cleto Cordero 19:26

Well, the first thing that came to mind was like green chile chicken enchiladas, which my mom would make all the time. And I don't really eat too much dairy now these days, so I didn't I I was thinking of like what's less like caustic on my system and chile verde that came to mind, which is like pretty much like you know, cubed sirloin or some kind of steak and like a green chili gravy, yeah, and some rice and beans, or that's something she would make like on a Saturday, if like that's what we got the news. Like, what are you making for supper? We just like couldn't wait.

Matt Pittman 19:56

So well, and so just to pull back the curtain completely, at the time of recording this, we haven't actually cooked together yet, which we're going to do after this. And I can tell you that you know, we we put various recipes through their paces and um just very funny. Fin I finished up this cook right about the time we were doing takeout food at home because it was a bit it's hectic season for us in life right now, like kids are in sports, and so a lot of evenings are depending on if I cook every day if I can, but if they have practice, then you know I I can't. So we had during my work day, we had made the last run of this recipe, and it came off right about the time that I had gotten takeout from my family. And my wife sees so we we use these like Yeti food bowls that are insulated. So since we wanted to keep it warm, I had it in there and brought it home and put on the counter and popped it open. And before my wife could jump into her food, oh, it was sushi. The takeout was we had gotten sushi and fried rice, that's what it was. It was sitting there on the counter, and she takes a spoon and starts to eat this and was like, oh my god. And she promptly pushed the sushi to the side and it did not get eaten. So

Cleto Cordero 21:01

that's impressive, dude.

Matt Pittman 21:02

It was uh it was good. So good. Actually, I'm super excited about it because you know, I always tell people like we'd love to make brisket videos all the time because brisket videos get the clicks and you get views and subscribers. But if I didn't do barbecue, I would do uh what I call comfort food, and this is right in the wheel. This is Southwestern comfort food at its finest.

Cleto Cordero 21:20

Agreed. That uh well, I'm so glad you're eager to make it because yeah, that guys from my team were asking me if uh, you know, how about making a brisket? And I just thought that was a little on the safer side, and I just yeah had a feeling you would, you know, be down to make something. I know you make all kinds of stuff, you know.

Matt Pittman 21:35

So this is gonna this is gonna be good.

Cleto Cordero 21:37

First time?

Matt Pittman 21:38

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. First time. And so, you know, I've shared this with you a bit, but I'm a big chili guy, but like we're talking traditional, you know, Texas style chilies, and we sell a chili seasoning, and so we you know, we're trying to push that, but it's just in our culture. Like, yeah, we try to be I moved here at 13, but at this point in my life, I'll tell people I'm dang well, Texan, at this point, and we try to be really authentic, and um, this is where I was meant to be. Like I never move I would never like go back to like where I was born because I love Texas so much so you know making southwestern comfort food if people didn't if people didn't associate with them barbecue that is my jam that's what I want to be and um you know to me I always say meat church about bringing people together make great memories around good food and nothing wrong with comfort food like that's what it's about

Cleto Cordero 22:23

yeah feeds lots of people like I said brings them together around the table and that's uh what a blessing yeah

Matt Pittman 22:28

well

Blanton’s, Buffalo Trace, And Big Moments

Matt Pittman 22:29

we're gonna talk about brisket in a second but you saw one of my bourbons we need to we need to get into this so I have a gift for you this is um open that up while I work on the bourbon here so up here on the logo side

Cleto Cordero 22:45

nice

Matt Pittman 22:46

this is uh this is a I'll let you pull it out there first so it's a Meat Church glencairn but it's in the fancy we do sell that glass uh unless you're a guest on the podcast unless you get it for free and then this is you can't buy these these are little glencairn holders so you can take that on the road with you can put that on the bus. A little deep edge glass here. Yeah that's keep that in my bunk you're gonna hear some sloshing around there keep it there so when I come write that song with you I'll bring mine but you so you you you saw my bourbon collection and uh you grabbed this Blanton's and said is this Blanton's and so what we have here this is called Blanton's straight from the barrel. So the difference so Blanton's is the original single barrel bourbon and it's not meant to be a commercial I'm just uh educating folks that don't know but straight from the barrel is uncut unfiltered so literally right out of the barrel so not proof down with more water or anything like that. So it's a little stronger you would say this one we're gonna put hair on our chest uh it's 130 proof okay so it's it is a little higher proof

Cleto Cordero 23:50

I could eat some hair on my chest so this is good.

Matt Pittman 23:53

I don't need any more so I should have grabbed something else but this is gonna be good. This is actually my favorite blands uh you know it's we're we're starting out strong with a 130 so don't let it don't let it scare you man

Cleto Cordero 24:07

I'm stoked

Matt Pittman 24:11

so okay

Cleto Cordero 24:20

s mells hot

Matt Pittman 24:23

it'll be all right cheers

Cleto Cordero 24:24

cheers salud

Matt Pittman 24:27

that was a good click that was a mid season click here we go oh yeah it's quite good might take a few sips to get used at 130 but you'll get

Cleto Cordero 24:44

that is fantastic wow

Matt Pittman 24:46

so okay before we talk brisket you actually uh you actually played some music at I know that you did I know this this never this was never aired but you you played you once played in warehouse C at the Buffalo Trace distillery and I didn't know that until you came here today because friends are Shane Smith played I knew they had done that but that's kind of cool you got to play music in the iconic warehouse C maybe the most famous warehouse in all of bourbon

Cleto Cordero 25:13

yeah that was that was quite a quite an experience and get to privilege to see a lot of special you know advent go on special adventures and such as that and that was one of the top five for sure we ever got to do and um we drank quite quite a bit of whiskey that day a pint or more

Matt Pittman 25:32

now we're getting the good stories.

Cleto Cordero 25:33

Yeah and and it was actually my anniversary too and Caitlin was there as well and so it was a a whiskey filled adventure but um

Matt Pittman 25:43

she came with you on this trip on your anniversary

Cleto Cordero 25:45

yeah she did

Matt Pittman 25:46

She's a keeper

Cleto Cordero 25:47

she is God bless her I love you uh but yeah we drank a lot of whiskey that night and I think the the footage has been archived I'm not sure where it exists right now

Matt Pittman 25:57

we're gonna have to go looking for it

Cleto Cordero 25:58

we'll have to look for it and I'm not I don't know if they didn't air it because we got too drunk or just what happened.

Matt Pittman 26:05

I think there was some change in team members there and I don't think the project ever aired from what I don't really know but from what I from what I understand but um that warehouse is I don't know I I love it. I mean you know the smell of bourbon that you know when you walk in that warehouse in particular you smell you you know it smells like this so I make barbecue with post oak and like a raining out night outside right now and when my wood pile gets wet it reminds me of the smell because these are her barrels so kind of a random thing but yeah I know you know the story but speaking of your wife um Caitlin Butts I I did not know Caitlin's music I you know know who she is know she's wife years ago and uh you know we talked about Randy Rogers earlier there was one weekend that my jam when I have free time is like my wife and I like to go stay in the stockyards and then I always look up who's playing at Billy Bob's because you know Texas country Americana music is just my favorite and Randy was playing on a Saturday and so I was like well that'd be a great like getaway we'll go stay at the Drover and we'll go see Randy play on Saturday. Well on Friday we had text Robert Gallagher the legend that you know runs the the music in the back room as I call it at uh at Billy Bob's Robert's like well come over you know and I didn't know who was playing and then he said Caitlin's playing and so we come in I had never heard her play and I know I just shared a story with you when I saw you a few weeks ago but we walk in and the set is like this I don't know it looks like spaceland like unbelievable not like anything I'd ever seen at Billy Bob's but I could tell you everybody in our group left there a massive Caitlin fan after that like very moving. And that's one of the few times in my life that's ever happened where it's like you don't know what you're expecting and you come out and all huge fans now.

Cleto Cordero 27:49

That's well she'll love to hear that I mean she she's been at it as long as we have and she's been seeing it since she was three and so I I really believe that's what she's destined to do. And uh yeah she works really hard you know and and super creative and to like have that set build and everything like she's always thinking of out of the wall off the out of the box ideas and so that's yeah she would be so floored to hear that.

Matt Pittman 28:14

Now see now it's okay that she came down here because I said I've said she was awesome twice in five minutes.

Cleto Cordero 28:18

Oh yeah no dude you should if you ever get a chance to have her on here that'd be cool too. No pressure. Yeah it was it was paper mache she met a guy that had built like a Barbie box for her at one point and I don't know where she finds these people but she's hangs out online and uh knows a lot of creatives do that and yeah and so yeah this guy had built all that stuff in just his like basement a paper mache. Yeah so yeah awesome now it's in storage that that rocket ship that's but yeah it's it made the I'm surprised it made the trek from Nashville to Texas in the back of a U-Haul just getting

Matt Pittman 28:56

I was gonna ask how you got it on here it's like it's have its own road case

Cleto Cordero 28:59

it barely fit in that freaking trailer but yeah that's crazy.

Matt Pittman 29:03

Well all right we got to go back to this

The Brisket Disaster And Smoker Reality

Matt Pittman 29:05

brisket talk. So you told me earlier let's talk food. So you like to cook your mom really big influence on you cooking same uh which is why I cook but you you told me you needed help for brisket you said or did you tell me you had a brisket nightmare or something.

Cleto Cordero 29:18

Yeah I I tried to I tried I just got this inspired idea to be like on a teasday out when I'm home from the road I'm gonna fire up the green egg I made I tried to make it in the green egg. Okay. And maybe try to write a song I think our our drummer Jason came over and say man let's try to smoke a brisket and and you know we're come up with a song in the meantime but you know that was the vision and the ideal but by the I I I I looked away for a moment and the freaking whole thing caught flame you know and it it was more like a crematorium and like I'll send you the video but yeah there's Caitlin's trying to cut the brisket at the end of the night and it's just literally crispy like like crispier than beef jerky. Like it was it was such a joke and she ordered in barbecue from some local place down the street and make me feel better. But yeah and I I feel like I'm pretty like as you can attest you know when you're cooking you gotta pay a lot of mind and you know and maybe I was trying to do too much at once like had too many irons in the fire like trying to write a song and think about things out in the ether and then you know I just took my eyes off it for a moment and it was gone. But so yeah maybe I'll have to try again and report back.

Matt Pittman 30:31

You might you know so when you're doing that you might want to get a maybe get a pellet grill because then it's just kind of doing its thing. I have big green egg I used to actually work with big green egg for several years before Traeger came and made me an amazing offer installed. Yeah. But I love my eggs. I still have them love my egg heads we recently came out with lump charcoal so that was kind of cool that reminded me of how passionate eggheads are because all these big green egg people started coming out of the woodworks to buy our charcoal which was neat but um I have all types of grills and smokers and I always say they're all about it's not that one's better than the other. It's just different tools for different circumstances or different life events. But I do love pellet grill when I'm doing other stuff because you can just let it ride and go write your song. I always say I can go to I can be down at ace hardware watching my kids play volleyball or whatever and my food just kind of chugging along and now it doesn't suck because you just like pull your phone up and look at your app and you know you can monitor your cook from anywhere in the world which is actually pretty helpful sometimes but yeah you might have to look into a pellet grill one day.

Cleto Cordero 31:26

I I I'll look into it. I always wondered and you know like you said the the benefit that you get of getting to go to your kids volleyball games and such as that probably outweighs the like the traditional factor of just smoking it with good old fashioned meat on a cheap apparatus but like uh that's what I was attempting to do for nostalgia reasons or whatever but what was your may I ask you question like what did you yeah what did your first time you ever smoked anything did it go well or did it no no yeah I did not was it on nothing nothing fancy so okay you want to hear something funny I'll I'll uh I'll open up the first time I ever smoked or let me say this instead of answering the first time I smoked anything the first time I made barbecue I cooked ribs in an oven uh which is you know obviously like blasphemy in Texas but you got to start somewhere and I didn't have a smoker and I bought a big green egg at one point I always tell people I bought a big green egg before I had a thousand dollars to spend on a smoker and then for Father's day my wife bought me a smoker like a you know custom when I say custom made smoker like like a dude in Red Oak Texas you know welded it thought he knew what he was doing.

Matt Pittman 32:37

Looking back now it is insanely ugly. Yeah but it was a reverse flow smoker and I'm self-taught I didn't know um I didn't know anybody I did not use social media I saw my former life I ran IT and so I was over applications and I could not stand Facebook because you know it was like everybody at work was like drama from Facebook or like today politics. I don't want to hear your political rant I just want to go in there and see food or like what my niece is doing, you know but I don't get to see what she's doing much because my brother's a social media leech he he consumes everybody else's social and he never posts but I just dove in hardcore um I was really interested in cooking I had young kids like I we had back to back kids 15 months apart and so I'm like a dad at home with a bunch of extra time. And so I just started you know Googling and you know how do you do this, how do you do that? And then I didn't you know I I didn't know what to season or sauce meat with because I didn't know anybody. I wasn't mentored by anybody. So I literally seasoned beef with salt and pepper because we live in Texas. And then I made an all-purpose rub with a recipe I got off a Texas AM website and tweaked it to my liking and that's that's how I got started. But I really enjoyed the process I mean you know like when you're asking about you know the the convenience of a pale grill versus old school I'll tell you a few years ago I've told this story a few times but there was a rare Saturday where my wife and my daughter were gone for the weekend or the the day like you know wedding shower type thing and I had all day and we'd had a really busy week at Meat Church and she's like what are you gonna do? It was a Sunday actually she said what are you going to do today and I said I'm gonna sit on the couch and watch football and it's really hard for me to slow down and relax. Like I'm so busy I never stop. Yeah but that particular Sunday I literally went and bought a brisket I actually went and bought the brisket the day before I got up early trimmed seasoned this brisket put it on my offset smoker a mill scale maiden lockhart and I tinkered with it all day no electronics no gimmicks and I really tried to make like the perfect brisket when no one was looking yeah and she came home that day and she's like what'd you do today and I said I smoked a brisket and I'll never forget she said what the hell's wrong with you like you're off today and I was like honestly it was therapeutic. Yeah and I'm not trying to be a nerd and act like I love my craft to that degree but it was so relaxing at the time that I could pour myself into it and I enjoyed it because nobody was watching. It wasn't going on social media. Yeah and the craziest thing I'm one of the biggest football fans you'll ever meet I remember the Cowboys were off that day but I never turned the TV on which is not like me. I can't put my phone down from social. I can't not watch football and I was just engulfed in making this brisket and it actually was like super relaxing and I don't think I've done it since like that because I'm always cooking for something you know social media or you know you've turned your hobby into your job so you can probably get it high stakes like the product's got to be good and hot and ready for people to consume at the end of the proverbial day.

Cleto Cordero 35:33

Yeah but in that instance you're making it for you and that's yeah your intention your heart and soul was into it which is what I wanted to uh I told I told you before we were talking on microphone that you were an artist and I had seen this clip I probably scrolled past it on uh not Instagram but Pinterest and it was like it was a quote that I think inspired that new album Work of Heart and it was like a a man who works with his hands is a laborer. Have you heard this? No and a man who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman and a man who works with his hands his head and his heart is an artist. And so applying all those things all of our being into like making something I think is like everyone has potential to be an artist and my mom's an artist in the kitchen uh every night you know what I mean and hearing your stories inspiring me it's like when I wake up one day and I'm like I want to write a song and it's like I don't it's not scheduled it's not with person X or Y or Z. It's just for me you know and it's like what is how is like God and love operating through you in a moment to like to turn this you know this offering into something spectacular you know what I mean it takes you back to why you started doing

Work, Art, And Not Forgetting Why

Cleto Cordero 36:47

it.

Matt Pittman 36:47

I mean you know we have a team now we have people that you know create I don't like the word content but you know create content etc I'm the one that I'm obviously the face of what we do and whatnot but I you know like yesterday I on my own created you know a little short video for social media but it was I cooked it and then created it and I don't have any extra time right now. I have negative time. Yeah but I took the time to do it because and when I look back I'm like well because you like doing it. That's why you started this business and it's always often a tough reminder that we get really busy and I'm stressed out which is seems to be the norm lately but one time I was going to film this commercial with Miller Light at ATT Stadium with the Cowboys and I was exhausted. I hadn't really slept and I remember pulling in the parking lot and like almost talking to myself and I said you are making barbecue outside of where the Dallas Cowboys play with Miller Light. You're gonna be okay. Like it's way better than sitting in a queue but it is nice every now and then to go back to why you started doing it in the first place. And I love cooking for people. That's like what I do and you know if somebody's over I'm cooking and people are like you ever take time off I'm like well that I like doing this. Like I'm sure you I know that you've played it with talking a minute about mutual friends but you probably love playing music at somebody's wedding or when it's a friend that means something not like oh I'm just getting paid to do it.

Cleto Cordero 38:03

Yep for sure and a good example that comes to mind is a friend that you know as well Blake Ferguson exactly he asked me to be yeah he asked me to be to sing their first stance and I played one I want and then myself and Kurt Ozan he plays Steel and Luke Cumbs's band a bunch of other things guitar uh but him and I just just pick songs like and entertain the after party situation it wasn't formal it wasn't get a ticket to this it wasn't you know cut me a deal it was just like playing songs like I've and I've told that to my bandmates too like at times it's funny I'll like get into a place now it's like gotta play the show like gotta warm up got to do all these things to like play this 90 minute show you know that's everything now that but it's also like the tip of the iceberg but it was funds and supports everything but like then I'll oh gotta go gotta get a shower and gotta get back to my button got to go to sleep so I can do it again and do it well and it's like but a part of me just wants to sit outside in a chair and just play my guitar like I always ever did and um the things you're talking about are reminding me to do that again and I think we get distracted from you know from things that we love at times even though we're doing the thing that we love but um yeah you just kinda reminded me to slow down and I I would be playing my guitar whether I was doing it professionally or not. You know what I mean now I get to do it professionally and ironically you'll think you gotta like carve out time for things that aren't music related not smoking a brisket not playing whatever that's that's actually what I want to do you know well I don't plan to get married a third time but if I do I'm calling you I'll play it your yeah you got it we'll play the song that we wrote may that may the third marriage never happen but the song we can still find time's gonna be TBD.

Matt Pittman 39:51

So crazy that we both know Blake did you meet Blake through going for being an LSU?

Cleto Cordero 39:57

Uh through our travels uh meeting Cappy and him being our manager and the Fergusons show up to our shows him and his dad one day and just be friends with him and he's a great guy.

Matt Pittman 40:09

Yeah and now he's like kind of a colleague of yours.

Cleto Cordero 40:12

Most certainly yeah and he he was at our show he'd showed up uh we were in dang I don't even remember uh Birmingham last week or the week before and he was just there after the show and because like now he's part of the fold yeah so I think an artist he was representing I don't even know I think he had family in Birmingham and so but he either way he was there with them and showed up and visited after the show and but yeah it's it's it's good to be around people that are passionate about what they're doing that love what they're doing. Yeah like that's always such a good a good vibe because one thing I try to remind myself too is now that we live our dream job is to like I don't want my dream job to turn into any semblance of anything that I was always trying to escape.

Matt Pittman 40:53

You know this yeah nine all respect to anyone that's working nine a five doing whatever I've I've done it myself um but just doing working I was doing work as my dad taught me to do, you know, and and work hard and don't complain and but uh whenever I woke up to like what my work was to do, then I I've just been working at it like wholeheartedly and like you as you were talking about like kind of not forgetting that and having a good attitude about it and the days that you're tempted to be dismayed or whatever it's like a good reminder to be like dude you're not breaking rocks with the hammer and you're not doing what you were doing ten years ago so like yeah well a lot of rambling thoughts which compliments of uh the meat church little pull so I think Blake actually cooked on the road for you guys a little bit last year didn't he he was sending me pictures and I said I said bro do I need to start deep snapping you're coming after my job he was great it was he did it on a on a less than fancy apparatus but yeah that what a cool story by the way that if for meat church fans that don't know this we're talking about Blake Ferguson um his brother Reed Ferguson so both of these guys long snappers in the NFL both went to LSU one goes to the Dolphins Reed is actually the longest tenured Buffalo Bill who's moving to Buffalo full time now that's Sanson when you're ready to move to Buffalo you're committed sure what a crazy story that parents birthed two LSU Tigers then NFL and by the way great guys uh you know Blake loves bourbon uh I can't get Reed into the bourbon as much but amazing human got his own seasoning out now uh super just super cool amazing dudes love those guys yeah they're like you said just good good dudes and um very brotherly and it's always good to have that energy you're out on the road too or just in the the webs that you weave you know if you're chasing your dream it's good. Well now now I feel I feel good about my ticket needs going forward to like an Alex Lambert show because I've said a lot of good things about Blake's and stuff yeah I feel good.

Cleto Cordero 42:53

I think you're covered yeah so uh this isn't prep but I assume you know Luke Combs I don't know if I mean I know you know Cappy but you know Luke very well I don't know I can't say I know him very well we did the 16 dates with him in 2023 uh plans opening up stadiums for him um we haven't played with him since or anything but uh yeah I I got there were times I got to hang out with him and visit with him and he's always so down to earth and wild that like right after COVID he goes straight to stadium shows. Yeah he's definitely blessed. I mean his fans I I remember being backstage in 2021 we opened up for him when our album Welcome to Countryland came out and three nights in Alabama and just being backstage and though I may not have been terribly familiar with all of his music it's it that part doesn't matter because when you show up to something and you're witness to it and just hearing his fans yeah you know just scream and have a be all in it is just like it m gives you goosebumps and tears up your eyes and everything and so he's he's uh got a good thing going on. He's a good dude too so it all makes a lot of sense

Matt Pittman 44:00

So here's a crazy Luke Hombs story for you. And then obviously, so we talk about Cappy and management. Cappy and I have a home in the same neighborhood in Florida. Crazy, wild, random, uh, that I figured out by our mutual friend Josh Abbott posting a vacation picture with his wife. And I'm like, that looks real familiar. And then I start digging in, and he's staying at Cappy's house, which is like three blocks back from my house. Crazy. Anyway, so I've got a buddy Bear Holman in Florida. He's like the fishing guide in the Keys. And last year, actually the year before last, for my birthday, I was gonna have this big soiree in Key West because I love Key West. I tell people I'm a big outdoorsman. So there's outdoorsman side and there's like the party side. So I thought, well, I can bring my buddies who want to fish, and then people just want to go to bars and come in a couple days later. And just we were busy in the fall, and um, it just turned out to where finally I called my buddy Bear and I said, Hey man, what if I just come down and me and you fish? And our birthdays are three days apart. His wife was going out of town. He goes, Yeah, man, come down, me and you fish. We'll just do what the L we want. Wake up when we want fish, go out, whatever. I said, Sounds good. And he says, Well, LC might come with us. I'm like, Well, who's LC? And he's like, Luke Combs. I'm like, Oh. And he, I guess he and Nicole and their boys live down in the keys. Uh, you know, there they say they're a lot. So sure enough, I'm making breakfast and in in Bears House walks Luke. And I'm like, hey, what's up? I said, Do you want a breakfast, burrito? And he's like, nah, I can't, I can't have the tortilla. And I said, What are you, celiac? He goes, nah, I'm fattyac. At least weight fat. So I always tell people I didn't have it on my bingo card that for my birthday I was going to be fishing in the keys with Luke Combs, but such a good dude. Went to dinner with he and Nicole after. And then last year I posted a picture of a hat I got at the Masters, and Nicole was like, Hey, I try I tried to get one of those, but they were sold out. And I said, Well, tell Luke to text me and I'll send it to you. So I mailed Nicole a hat and she put it on Instagram. So Luke Combs famous thing that dude, the website weave. So good people help good people. That's what truly that's what I always say. So super good dude. He was down here playing in Austin um last year and he had said come down and cook, but we weren't in town. But yeah, super fun world. We've also got another mutual friend, Cameron Gott, who actually used to shoot a bunch of my shows, and I learned through talking to you that he shot your wedding.

Cleto Cordero 46:06

Yes, yeah. That was uh Caitlin's got a Rolodex of just well, once again, a lot of creatives that she knows through all of her travels and such. And he he came out and filmed our wedding when we barely had any bucks, you know, to to pay him anything, you know, yeah, super great or anything and everything. So he was he definitely did us a favor there. So thankful for him.

Matt Pittman 46:27

I haven't even crazy talented, crazy talented. I mean to see if he's here, like if he's in town, he would want to come over to the house.

Cleto Cordero 46:34

Um I don't think I've seen him since then.

Matt Pittman 46:36

He's amazing. I mean, the stuff he does, like he shot a Super Bowl commercial, and I mean he's he's wild to say the least. And another another all right, we gotta get into this. So uh another mutual friend, William Cart Green. Yeah. Um, you gotta you gotta tell us a story about what you've done to him, what how you've iced him, how you've iced.

Cleto Cordero 46:54

Oh yeah. Well Will Green's like my older brother, you know, he sang on our first full-length album. I remember calling him, like, trembling, like, hey man, I have this song. Can you like to go from that to him like literally being like my older brother and playing pranks on each other? And we played his music festival many years ago, Cotton Fest and Lubbock, and the next I think the next day we played Larry Joe Taylor's Texas Music Festival, and we're the crew's uh unloading the the trailer and they're rolling like the the uh rug that the the drums set upon, and he had taped their whole crew of tape like eight smearing off ices in the in the rug, which is for those of y'all that don't know out there, is like a game. If if you ever get iced, you have to like chug it immediately on a knee right where you stand, and so we got got. Yeah, and then so yeah, um, and so the next time I saw him, which is now I'm getting my story backwards, he he iced us before Larry Joe Taylor, you know, music festival. So the next time I saw him, we went out to the liquor store and spent like I was gonna spend like a thousand bucks on ices, and then I realized like that's a terrible I even like called our business manager, he's like, um, that's a lot, like maybe like a quarter of that. Thousand dollars of smear. It would have been, dude, it would have been a terrible idea. But so we did 250 bucks worth, and it was still like twelve or fourteen cases of it, and it was a lot. And we went through his whole bus while he was on stage and just hid them everywhere. And he said that they were getting iced for like weeks after that, and we made like a little video too as we're inside of you know, like we like sacked his place, like it's old ancient times, and we're like you may have won the battle, William, but you won the war. Yeah, so awesome. He was getting he was, yeah.

Matt Pittman 48:34

Well, I know I know where he keeps his bus, so I may have to try to get access.

Cleto Cordero 48:37

You know, yes, we should we definitely should. That would be just just I mean, we're gonna see him again. We're playing at his festival again this year, so cool. If like him before, then maybe you could try to retaliate and we can keep the the lore going.

Matt Pittman 48:50

That's amazing. Well, we've got to get him on this show for sure. We've talked about it for a while. He he obviously, you know, he can cook. He you know, raises beef, and that dude can cook. I I don't know what will cook, he'll decide, but I wouldn't be shocked if it's crawfish or gumbo or something like that, which is a treat for me. Like, um, I I don't say this a lot publicly, but when Meat Church took off, people quit inviting us to cookouts, and so never no one ever cooks for me because that uh it's bizarre because I wouldn't care. I always say, like, if if someone said you want to come to this cookout and they're making hamburgers and they burnt them, I truly would not care. Yeah. Because that's not what it's about. And plus, I never judge food anyway. I'm not a I'm not a food critic, but uh to have if he wants to come over and and show me how to cook, you know, his gumbo or something, I would be down. So he definitely is on the short list of getting him on here soon. Plus, his voice is amazing. I'm a huge fan, always happy, and like he's such a good dude, so that'd be fun.

Cleto Cordero 49:42

It you will have nothing but a fun time with him. He's always so like la, you know, laughing like a hyena and stories for days, down to have a beer or or six. And I can't tell how many times I've stayed up watching the sunrise come up with him, just wondering when he's gonna go down, but he never does. And we did like a photo shoot when we were at the panhandlers, this other you know, the boy band we playing together, and we stayed up before like like the photo shoot of our Tough Country album. We all look really haggard because we played a show the night before, and literally I remember crawling into this Airbnb bedroom for 15 minutes, and then manager comes and wakes me up, and I stayed out with him on the front porch as he was ripping SIGs and giving me brother, you know, we had some drinks in our hands, and he was just he's like, Glutto, I see how hard you're working, you need to take some time, you know, and all this stuff. And you know, so I love I love hanging out with them. So I know I'm happy for you when you get them on here. You'll have a good time.

Matt Pittman 50:40

So I got a couple more questions, but you actually just segued to one. I gotta ask you about the panhandlers. So know a couple guys in it between him and Josh, but you gotta tell me about that project because I've always thought it was cool. What a what an all-star cast.

Cleto Cordero 50:51

Oh, yeah, and it's it's it's a lot of fun anytime we get together, simply. I and I'm I always feel like I'm a little brother in that band, which I kind of I like that element of like you're not you're just like a a faction of the whole entity and the whole big thing. It's not all on your shoulders or anything of that nature, or it doesn't feel that way. And the the band is just a freaking shoot from the hip, like a bunch of aces, like made up of all of our bands, you know, put together. And so it's just kind of I always feel like we're like a bunch of sailors at sea. Anytime we're when we go on a tour, it's like a little 10-day run or something, and uh they call Will's Will's bus the Black Pearl.

Matt Pittman 51:32

I heard that, yeah.

Cleto Cordero 51:33

Yeah, this our guitar player Reed, you know, during that tour, spent time uh on the Black Pearl, spent the whole tour there. He's like, dude, I can I can I'll never do it again. And it's a good time, but yeah, like it's just I don't know, it's totally a dream come true to backtrack for a second. Like for me, the way being a kid from Midland that was inspired by these Lovick bands and to get to be uh called up to write with these guys and record and and play shows is like totally beside myself. And I remember when Josh called me, I was in Washington, DC, and uh was like, man, I just have this idea to like uh make a project that you know, maybe we can do some like Flatlander songs or do like a cover album, and you know, we maybe we do our first show at Steamboat, and my dad earlier on in this whole m my endeavor of just pursuing, you know, chasing dreams, he had told me when opportunity knocks, like you gotta answer the door, or because I got a call like to backtrack a lot of time ago. I had called him, I was like, Man, the the biker bar in Odessa called, they're looking for a band, you know, and on short notice, like I don't know, man. I I don't know if they're gonna like us that we're too soft or whatever. And he's like, Is this what you want to do? You know, when you get called up, like you're gonna have to heed the call. So I I heard his voice in my ear when Josh called me and asked me to be a part of it, and I was like, What an honor. Like, why would I second guess that? You know, so yeah, it's going to school out for those guys, and yeah, yeah. It's it's never a dull moment. If if and ever you get a chance to come out on the road with the panhandlers, do it because it'll be I'm coming. Dude, you got to. We we can oh man.

Matt Pittman 53:11

So Josh and I are same fraternity, different schools. Uh also Casey Donahue, so our little Fidel brothers. So I've always loved Josh. Actually, Josh was the first Texas country music I ever got into. Okay. So always have a soft place in my heart film, but I love that guy. So I gotta come, I gotta come see you guys.

Cleto Cordero 53:30

You'll have a blast, and Will Green will probably make Gumbo out in his underwear with no shoes on.

Matt Pittman 53:36

Now I'm in. Yeah. Okay.

Naming Flatland Cavalry And Meat Church

Matt Pittman 53:39

I know there's a backstory with another name, but I want to hear where the flatland name came from, and I would love to hear about the previous name.

Cleto Cordero 53:46

Yeah. Um the Flatland Cavalry. Yeah. Yeah. So my hunch when moving to Lubbock was to start a band because I felt like my name's been mispronounced my whole life. Cleito. Really? You know, and I I always heard it growing up as a you know, Hispanic household, Cleto, you know. Started going to school and people started calling me Cleo, and I'm like, I don't wouldn't even answer to that. I'm like, oh, they're talking to me, you know? And so had to figure out some way to say so, anyways, I thought of a band name and I was very naive and didn't even didn't know the history in Lubbock and everything. And I just I thought Flatlanders was like sounded so cool. Never heard of that before. And I go to Google in it, and it's like, oh, this is a legendary band from Lubbock. It's already been taken, and um, I just knew it should use Flatland something. And one day I was jogging around the track there at the rec center with my roommate Earl, and we were just discussing band names and all stuff, and he's like, What about Clutto and the Texas Cavalry? And I was like, How does Flatland Cavalry sound? He's like, Sounds pretty good. I mean tough. It's well, and it yeah, it didn't sound cheesy or like gimmicky, you know. There were some gimmicky bands, uh not bands, but just band names that I'd ever heard of that I didn't want it to be like people to kind of go, huh? What is that? You know, so like Flatland Cavalry just felt very like bona fide, and I like that it had the flatland word in there because that's where we're from, and so that that's how it came to be. And um yeah, I'm thankful for that. It's it's kind of wild that like I moved to Lubbock two-start a band, you know, and you didn't even know what the band name was gonna be called. We operated under like Cleto and the Noise for a show or two, just these lame, you know, names and a band name, yeah, it takes some time to figure out. But for sure. What was your second question?

Matt Pittman 55:35

Um, the first name. I'd heard there was a story behind there being a first name, so oh, like before, yeah.

Cleto Cordero 55:41

Yeah, Cleto and the Noise or something lame. Uh Dancing Crows was another option. We could have rolled the dice on that.

Matt Pittman 55:47

This reminds me of like when I'm trying, I name all my seasonings, which sounded like a great idea. And it is I'm a brand guy, you know, and I went to school for finance and always thought that marketing and management were the easy ways out, and I want to do like the tougher out, which is I don't know. But I'm definitely a marketing guy. So I love branding, love the names, but you know, we trademark our names, but boy, that's hard. You gotta figure out what can you use, what's not been taken, frankly, what's not gonna piss people off. Sure. You know, that think you're around their trademarks, but I imagine for a band that's not it's not super simple to come up. But your you guys' name's so unique to me. I love it. It sounds tough, I'm telling you. So it sounds like the Lubbock Army to me.

Cleto Cordero 56:22

Oh yeah. It's thank you. Yeah, uh, it felt inspired. And yeah, like we're a band, we're an outfit, it's a group, cavalry from the flatlands, like and somehow seems to suit the music too. I don't know. That's cool. Yeah. Um I don't I didn't I didn't have any other options, so that that's what we landed on.

Matt Pittman 56:41

All right, hang on.

Cleto Cordero 56:43

Were there others for Meet Church, may I ask?

Matt Pittman 56:45

So, you know, meet that is so funny you say that. Uh, I have a buddy that that uh that you know says that he's gonna be, you know, well, first off, my oldest son says he's gonna start church meet, you know, just take when when I don't like his ideas, he goes, that's fine, church meet's gonna take it. But you know, we've heard them all, Meet Temple, and definitely it's our unique name. I mean, we operated under our last name with barbecue, and it was playing. And basically it came from, you know, there there's a charity in Dallas called Meet Fight, and they fight MS, or they, you know, they raise money to battle MS. And the um founder of the charity names Alice Lasade, she tweeted out on a Sunday morning a picture of barbecue from a barbecue joint in Dallas uh called Slowbone, and she said, it said something like I'm about to have my hashtag MeetChurch, and I just it just stuck with me. So it's two words that don't go together. I was raised Southern Baptist, so you know, a little bit risky to go with that name, but there's no doubt it's been the single best business decision I've ever made. It's because you'll never forget it. Two words don't go together, you know.

Cleto Cordero 57:45

Yeah, no, it's it's great as a wordsmith. Yeah, yeah. I love it. It's fantastic.

Matt Pittman 57:50

I'm on this songwriting thing, it's not gonna be as bad as that. That's what I'm saying. Dude, I know you already got I'm I'm I'm does Me Church have a jingle yet? Because dude, maybe that's what you write. No, you know, I try to you know there's a lot of other cool peoples that I see. We don't have a jingle, we need one. I'll see what'll happens. I'll meet a guy you know like you that has great music, and I'm like, hey, can I license that song? But we definitely need a jingle, we need something.

Cleto Cordero 58:09

Don't worry about the red tape with me, but if you need help with the jingle, I'd I'll just probably do it as your friend just to just to send it to you in a voice memo and be like, well, this is what I hear. I love it.

Matt Pittman 58:18

Pulling up my notes here real quick and I'm gonna finish. I'm gonna finish. Let's see. Let's see. I'm about to wrap it up here. Okay.

Work Of Heart And Never Coming Back

Matt Pittman 58:34

So I gotta ask you about the current new album. Um hang on, let me start this over. Okay. So I gotta ask you about the new album. Work of heart. The the album art is super cool, but I would tell you that never coming back is on dang near repeat in my truck ever since Troubadour, and you would love this. My daughter's 15, she loves it. Uh, I think she's super stoked for you to come over and cook, and she's probably got it up her sleeve that she's trying to bring all her friends over. Um, but you gotta tell me about it because it's crazy. I play the song a lot, but you know, I want to hear all about I want to hear about the album, but I want to hear about where you're going, yeah, etc. What you got coming?

Cleto Cordero 59:10

Yeah, so we're I'll pour more blends. Yeah, you're welcome to pour me a little bit more too if you care to. Hey, the day's young. There's it, don't worry. So yeah, the um we're on we just released the work apart album. We're on the fifth album. Yeah, it's our fifth full length, and we have two EPs, so like six albums worth of songs. We got Kameh, Humble Folks, Koma Insecurity, Welcome to Country Land, Songs to Keep You Warm as an EP, then Wandering Star, and then this would be uh yeah, Work of Hearts our our fifth one. But I ha the whole process of us like as it's since its inception has been like start writing songs, you know, find my buddies to play them with and bring them to life. Got the band together, and you start going on tour, and then you realize like, oh dang, you need more songs. And then um maybe I don't know if it'd be like when you get an inspired recipe and you're like, oh, I know what it is, and then sometimes you're tinkering or you don't. Uh all the songs I ever wrote up until a certain point in my life were just inspired uh ideas that like struck me like lightning, and then folks have expectations thereafter, you know, you're putting music out in the world, and folks are like, oh, you gotta, you know, hopefully come up with more. And then while you're touring, too, it's a lot going on. And so uh I learned the craft in between like albums like one and two, where I began to like open books up and study, and um so all the books I ever read to help me finish, you know, our second full-length album, Homeland and Security. I just implemented all those ideas uh or you know, tips and tricks, if you will, thereafter, which is like you know, keep a journal in your pocket. I have one in my pocket right now, I got a pen. Anytime you get an idea, write it down. As much as you can hear, it could be a whole lyric, it can be just a little piece of a puzzle. But I do that all the while as I'm living life and I try to be present wherever I'm at and on the road, at home, wherever it may be. Um, but I just all that to say, I've just been collecting songs as I'm out touring and seeing things and meeting people, and I think that's always influenced every album because as I'm continuing to evolve and mature as a as a creature, you know, like I I want to believe our fans are too. You know what I mean? Some people have been with us since I was in college and we're we're growing together, and so the songs and stuff have seemed to mature as I've learned getting to work too with other Nashville songwriters and just people I've been connected with through management and publishing deals and such. And so eventually it amounts to this batch of songs that will be work of heart, and I realized that a lot of the songs, as I sent a bunch of them to our producer, and he's like, Man, we're gonna make just send me all the songs you got, and then we'll make an A plus folder. And these are the ones that I think are like gonna be great. We'll make a great album. And then when we put all these in this A plus folder after he listens, you know, I I discern and understand that almost all of them have the word heart, and I was like, Man, do I need to like write more songs? Am I writing the same stuff over and over? Like I was a little discouraged, and uh then I saw that there was one in the batch called Work of Heart, and it was totally all-encompassing, and I'm like, what if no man, like you always write from the heart and what you know, and literally like our moniker is uh easy on the ears, heavy on the heart, always has been. It's like just writing what you feel, and so, anyways, that song kind of named the album and it was all encompassing, and that's been my process. I give you that whole backstory, so people are like, Where did these even come from? You know, and they to me they've always felt like a mosaic of like different baseball cards of life, you know, different events, experiences, whatever have you. And there's always one that's like an outlier to you, like a on this knee record, it's unglued, it's a rock song, you know. Uh previous albums, Coyote, that we feature Will Green on, and No Ace in the Hole for Welcome to Country. There's always something that's different. And so I think that's too for Flatland Calvary that gives us a can't really quite put your thumb on what we are, you know, but it is heart and soul at the end of the day. Instrumentation, I feel like give the songs the treatment that they desire to have. Um, and so yeah, that's this Work of Heart album is just a a re another collection of life songs of life, love, and loss, and still easy on the ears, heavy on the heart. Uh and the first part of your question was like talking about never coming back. That one had was another uh piece of poetry that I had the first verse to Never Coming Back was actually a second verse that I wrote for Caitlin Butts' uh song uh Bored If I Don't, which is on her What Else Can She Do album. So you could try singing that for fun if you listen to her song What else uh Bord If I Don't, try to sing the verse one over verse two of her song because that's what I wrote it for. She didn't uh ask for it or but I noticed that she didn't, she w hadn't finished it. So she never took it, so I kept it in my back pocket. I show up to a song right with Erin Raytier and Luke Laird. And um on that day too, I didn't really have anything to say or to write, but and I was kind of but I always I know this much, Matt. It's like you too being an entrepreneur, it's like you know that if you expect something good to happen and you show up and you you're present and you give it your best and you're not discouraged or buy into doubt and fear, like something good's gonna happen, you know. And so as a songwriter, that's my job is to show up and like ex, you know, I know we're gonna make something good, I just don't know what. And the day that I didn't have anything, I showed up in the room and they had that little piece of the chorus. And it's so much the fact that you're leaving, it's waiting on you, knowing that you're never coming back. And immediately that piece of poetry I wrote years before just came to the surface, and so I pitched it to them and they're like, Man, that's really good. And so we started it that way, and just you know, connect the dots or whatever. And yeah, that song is uh it's really upbeat and happy sounding, but the message is kind of devastating, and that's the juxtaposition that I think that makes it kind of if anything interesting.

Matt Pittman 1:05:17

That's what makes it interesting. That's yeah, yeah.

Cleto Cordero 1:05:19

Yeah, so and I just I won't to rambling there, so forgive me, but we are on a podcast. Yeah, yeah. This is well, this is yeah, like when we talk about songs, talk to talk about them all day and where they come from, or why do you even why do we do it, you know what I mean? And uh, but yeah, that song in particular is you know, it's emotionally heavy and such, and people are like, Oh, is that are you writing about your life? And you know, I don't know. Uh if anything, I've I've been through events of dissolution, you know, breakups and whatever have you, and I don't ever I'm thankful to have learned from them, so I try not to apply those to my future and my present moment, but you can still I learned through trying to live like a Like a s a drunk in Troubadour drinking and you know trying to be sad and stuff to write sad songs is like no way to be. So like I can just dig back from those experiences to write sad songs still. And sometimes that to be honest, I don't even like singing those songs live because it's super heavy, you gotta moat them. Yeah, you know, and so however, I say that not to complain about the great work we get to do, but it's uh someone I had talked to after a show recently had said, Man, that song never coming back, like really I've got I've gone through something really heavy, like you know, as much as like a marriage not working out and stuff, and that song really like has helped me. And so I I feel like I know that we're doing the work that's prescribed to us to do, and uh that makes me it makes it feel purposeful. Like sing it and give it your all and deliver uh like don't phone it in, really give it because you know someone out there is probably going through it, you know what I mean?

Matt Pittman 1:06:56

And that's the thing with music to me that's interesting. I have this belief that some people turn on country radio and they hear a song and they like the way it sounds or how it makes them feel, and I think they don't really listen to the lyrics. To your point, it's that song is upbeat, but then you dig into reading the lyrics like and it's just interesting to me, like how you put it all together. And if you really take the time to understand the art, it's not just this this song that I like to dance to or whatever the case, but when you listen to it, somebody could be going through it, it could do something for them. What's really cool to see that you I mean, you know, not that I have to remind you that your work matters, but you write this song that's poetry, you put music to it that is the element that makes people like, ooh, I really like that. Yeah, but then they go back and read what you wrote and like what it means to people, and like it truly is art, it makes me feel like what I do, you know, doesn't matter at all. Like, listen, the last episode of this podcast, I'm on with Kevin Van Damme, and I'm an outdoorsman. I think I can fish better than the average guy. That dude humbled me in seconds.

Cleto Cordero 1:07:51

Yeah.

Matt Pittman 1:07:52

We get on the boat, and I think it was 8 14 a.m. He catches an eight-pounder. I'm like, all right, I'll just head on back to the dock. But you know, what you do really matters, and it's super cool. I mean, you gotta love the fact that you're creating real art and then it's providing a living for your family and everybody in the band and the you know the management, and it's pretty crazy. I mean, you're not just running around bars and biker bars in Midland. Like when you're on tour, like the cost with that is wild. Like, yeah, it's it's really cool what you guys have created. And I'm telling you, every time I see you guys are playing somewhere, like your fans are they're hardcore, which is awesome. When you have those cult fans, yeah, keep doing what you're doing, and you're gonna be just fine.

Cleto Cordero 1:08:32

Thank you so much. Yeah, we we definitely love what we do and care about it. And we always anytime we break it out, like before every show, it's like, you know, you know, do let's do the thing. We always say, I think I told you this when I saw you at Tribudo Festival in Ghana. So it's my Theo Phil says with everything I was like, what does that translate to? He's like, with everything that you got, like give it everything and go, you know, take it to the people. And yeah, I'm when I have the rare moments to sit and ponder, you know, when we're not moving around here and there, it's like that all that it's turned into and you know become, and I feel grateful and thankful and I I still want to never forget that like young, youthful dreamer that wasn't wasn't running off bucks or anything. It was just totally spirit-driven, just like let's do it, you know. And so like I yeah, and I don't know about you, but do you sometimes I think I balk to that um youthful enthusiasm of like an in every moment uh um for the I don't know if it makes me feel crazy sometimes. Like I'm I think you gotta be a little mad to chase a dream, but I just feel like totally I think people will think I'm insane if I'm always like that glass of water is half full, and like it's like no man, there's like that much water in it. I'm like, no man, but just wait, like totally.

Matt Pittman 1:09:44

I mean I have to remind myself occasionally, it's like if I go to somebody working in corporate America or you know, I don't know, working on a road crew, they would give their left nut to be cooking for a living, drinking Buffalo Trace products, hanging out with Flatland Calvary, like it's the freaking dream. I mean, every job's work, you know, that's what you make of it, but you gotta remind yourself why you did it. And okay, as the kids you'd say, not to glaze, but weird thing, real compliment I want to give you before we get out of here. I love you guys' style, like your dress and what you wear. Like, you've got an Amalamo shirt on.

Cleto Cordero 1:10:18

Oh, dude, compliments to Caitlin Butt. She got this in Australia, dude.

Matt Pittman 1:10:22

It's like actually that shirt is sick.

Cleto Cordero 1:10:25

Yeah, it's dude, it's so old you can tell.

Matt Pittman 1:10:27

Yeah, yeah.

Cleto Cordero 1:10:29

It's yeah, it's very cool.

Matt Pittman 1:10:30

See the difference of me and you, I'm not cool enough to pull that off. No, dude, what are you talking about? That's that's insane. I you're just wearing my standard issue brand new poncho shirt, and you roll in with an Alamo ringer.

Cleto Cordero 1:10:42

Well, hey, to each their own, because that's that's a good look too. And I feel like you we dress for the like the job that we have and like for the stage and all this stuff too. And at times, dude, at times I just want to get down and dirty too, and just put on the denim pearl snap or the poncho and get out there.

Matt Pittman 1:10:58

So I was in Salt Lake this weekend for my daughter plays club volleyball, and uh I'm flying back and I get lucky, get upgraded to first class, and it's a Monday morning. Everybody's in there dressed for the job, they're on their PowerPoint, they're doing their thing, and I you know, I dress like I'm homeless and I love it.

Cleto Cordero 1:11:13

I freaking love it, I I totally buy into it. If you're comfortable and you don't, yeah, who are you trying to impress? You know? Nobody. We went my wife is the only one I need to impress otherwise, we're good. In in the same vein it's uh uh Caitlin and I went to dinner last night and we didn't even know where we were gonna go was last minute. Awesome place down the street from our house, Cafe Rose. I recommend if you're ever in East, go check it out.

Matt Pittman 1:11:36

They're like Did you know I'm from Tennessee? I heard Chattanooga. Yeah. Right. Okay, yeah. So I mean, way different than Nashville, but but the but at my point is there's a possibility I could be there, so we can make this happen. I will be there in October, actually.

Cleto Cordero 1:11:50

So Well, if you're if you are there, and I I imagine it'd be rare that you would not be occupied or whatever, but uh Caitlin and I made like a yellow decision, bought a golf cart this past year, just uh after sitting out of Cafe Rose and seeing a couple drive by and we're like, you know, whatever, we'll plan for our retirement later or whatever, but let's have some fun. But so we can ride around the golf cart, go to Cafe Rose. We went there last night. My whole point was that we were dressed, she was dressed in sweats, and I was like in you know, athletic wear and stuff, and it's like I told I told her, I was like, do we need to like get dressed up? And she's like, you know, and so because we we didn't have anyone to impress, but yeah, we sat at the bar and everything. But yeah, as long as you're treating people with kindness and dignity and like who g who gives what you're what you look like, I guess.

Matt Pittman 1:12:36

You know, I'm gonna hit you up in October when I come up. I'll give you the easy notice.

Cleto Cordero 1:12:39

Um well, good for you. We'll be off the road, I think, by October.

Matt Pittman 1:12:41

It's nice. Yeah,

Tour Plans, Big Shows, And Wrap Up

Matt Pittman 1:12:42

okay. All right, so to close this thing out, this has been awesome. I want you to tell everyone, I mean, you know, to the best of your ability, where are you guys headed? Where, you know, what are some places you're headed where they can find, or tell them where they can find you, which yeah, in 2026, pretty obvious how you find people, but yeah, you're going to some cool cities.

Cleto Cordero 1:12:57

We're we're honestly we are we're all over the place, like we're all over the country all the rest of this year, but you can see our schedule at you know flatlandcaliber.com and come see us. We'll be all over the place. Um, not everywhere, unfortunately, but there's always next year. And um we have like our biggest show is at the end of the year. We just confirmed uh Dicky's Arena in Fort Worth down the street. We did that two years ago and it sold out, and I was totally like I love that place because I'm a Fort Worth guy.

Matt Pittman 1:13:26

If it weren't for my in-laws living in Waxachi, I would live in Fort Worth. That's where my job was. I went to high school there, so I'm gonna put that on a calendar.

Cleto Cordero 1:13:32

Yeah, but I feel like you're you got you got more room to roam out here in more country. Like Fort Worth's country as hell, but yeah, you got some more country land to roam around. But yeah, that that's that's like our lighthouse again on the at the end of the year on the coast. Uh but we're sailing towards Dicky's Arena down in Fort Worth. Uh it sold out last time, a couple years ago, so we're hoping for Oh, it'll sell again. Yeah, I would encourage you to get your tickets earlier. And yeah, we have like this year we're come see us on tour. We have like a video wall finally and like assets. It's the work of heart tour, so like all the like video wall effects and everything were you know made by real artisans and stuff like that. Really cool looks, and um, it's just it's exciting. It's it's fun to bring some new freshness into the old songs and then play these new ones live, which are getting you know received really well. Yeah, so that's always a blessing too, because you at times maybe think like, oh, like play the hits, you know. But I've always as an artist, I always want to play what's the freshest thing I got.

Matt Pittman 1:14:33

It's my most recent when you're a young concert goer, you know, you want to hear the artist play the hits, but I don't know. As I spend more time loving music, it's like you really appreciate why you're playing that new song and what you're trying to do. So yeah.

Cleto Cordero 1:14:46

Well, and and as you that makes food pitmaster, I mean you your hits are what brisket, chicken, like you gotta play what people want, but then you can also be like, oh, here's some uh chila bread.

Matt Pittman 1:14:56

I always say that. Like I always say, like I said earlier, like brisket's gonna get the clicks, but like I make really good fish, or you know, I'm gonna make the stuff that doesn't get like Easter. We made lamb and we knew literally told my team this is gonna bomb on YouTube. And it did, but it was frickin' delicious. When you come look at our cookbook, I don't want to just have brisket ribs and chicken.

Cleto Cordero 1:15:15

Yeah. So no, that's well, kudos to you. Thank you for having me on and I'm inspired by your artistry.

Matt Pittman 1:15:21

The first ever musical artist on the Meat Church podcast.

Cleto Cordero 1:15:24

Okay, you put m uh musician and then you said athlete. I thought you were gonna say like our first musician, athlete.

Matt Pittman 1:15:29

Go to Cordero. We'll see. I mean, it's an early day. We haven't gone to film the cooking shows yet. We might have Meat Olympics in the backyard. So everybody will have to see again. By the time this airs, go back and look at our cooking episode, which we're actually about to go film, but would have already aired. So we're doing this backwards today due to weather and walksatchie, but it is what is. I mean, who knows everybody's gonna hear this, but it rained the whole time we're near. It sounds like it cleared up. So I'm pretty pumped to go uh to go make it's gonna be unbelievable. I'm telling you, I was like licking the bowl the other night.

Cleto Cordero 1:15:59

That's brother. When you grew up with six brothers and sisters, I know what you mean by licking the bowl and and good stuff.

Matt Pittman 1:16:05

Listen, yeah, I grew up very poor, so I know the feeling. Well, dude, thank you so much for coming on. This has been a treat.

Cleto Cordero 1:16:10

Oh, it's been a treat to be here.

Matt Pittman 1:16:12

Thank you. I would offer I'm I'm we gotta make a pact. I'm I'm coming to show. I mean, I'm I may be cooking post-show food, but I may just be having too much bourbon there now at a good time. Maybe my chef will be cooking for you. Please, brother.

Cleto Cordero 1:16:22

That would be awesome. And there's never anytime you put pressure on writing songs too, that it's it's not the way. And so, like, good songs come from good hangs, and it's like, well, one time I thought about this or I felt this way, and it's like that's the thread that you unraveled.

Matt Pittman 1:16:36

I can work on that. So I will tell you, I carry little field notes book like you do, even though we're, you know, on this, you know, podcast, I'm using my notes on my phone. I actually walk around, I'm old school. My calendar that I keep from eChurch is literally a paper calendar, but I, you know, I appreciate a paper you hold newspaper you hold in your hand, but I carry field notes because I constantly have ideas and I'm writing stuff constantly. I'm not saying I'm gonna get in a songwriting, we're gonna give it hell.

Cleto Cordero 1:16:59

Well, stay tuned. It'll be better than the brisket, at least that I made.

Matt Pittman 1:17:04

Well, my mission is to get you there on the brisket. We're gonna we're gonna make it happen. I owe a trip to Nashville to cook. Uh Luke Combs got a smoker that he's like, Will you show me how to use it? I was like, Yeah, I will. Just call me. Dude, awesome. So I'm not anyway. I will be up in October. We'll we're gonna make this happen. We're going to dinner at a minute in sweats on the golf cloud. Delio. Well, we appreciate you guys listening. This has been a ton of fun. If you're on YouTube, make sure that you like and subscribe. If you're listening on audio, make sure that you follow. Mark downloads to automatic so you can listen on the go. And hey, if you feel like it, leave us the review. We'll see you guys next time.